Leftovers from "If I find"

Pastor Jason Barnett, a.k.a. The Dirt Path Pastor, dives into the powerful story of Abraham's intercession for Sodom and Gomorrah, exploring the complexities of sin, divine justice, and the often-misunderstood concept of retribution theology. Discover how this ancient narrative still speaks to us today, urging us to live in step with God's ways, avoid hard-heartedness, and remain open to the whispers of the Holy Spirit. Don't miss this deep dive into one of the Bible's most challenging stories. 

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Transcript

(1:05) 🎵 (1:06) Well hello everyone, good evening, I'm Pastor Jason Barnett, (1:09) a.k.a. The Dirt Path Pastor, coming live to you from here at Ravenna Church of the Nazarene, (1:14) located in Ravenna, Kentucky, at 530 Main Street, right across from the park. (1:19) We'd love to have you visit us if you live in the area. (1:22) The purpose of this video is called Leftovers, and we're just simply exploring questions (1:29) you or someone else may have had about Sunday's message, or about a message from the past, (1:37) or just a question about Christianity in general that you may have had.(1:40) That's what this episode is for. (1:42) So as this video is going, if you're watching live, just feel free to post your comments (1:48) in the comment section with your questions. (1:50) If I see them as the live feed is going, I'll do my best to answer them, but if not, then (1:56) we will just simply, I'll answer them as soon as I see them.(2:01) I'll either address them in this video, or I'll send you a Facebook message or a comment (2:06) in the post based on what happens. (2:09) But for this episode, we are exploring a Sunday sermon based on Genesis 18, verses 20-33, (2:18) where Abraham is negotiating with God to try and save as many righteous people from the (2:25) destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah as possible, and God is willing to spare the two cities (2:32) and all of their wickedness if God can bind ten people that are righteous. (2:36) And that's, you know, Abraham and his negotiation with God starts off with 50, and then again (2:43) the negotiation goes all the way down to 10, and God accepts this deal with Abraham.(2:50) And unfortunately that doesn't work out for the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah, we'll get (2:54) into that here in a little bit. (2:56) But as with any message, there are a lot of other areas that we could have talked about (3:00) as this sermon was happening, but for the sake of time, I don't always explore all those (3:05) things, and that's what this episode is for. (3:09) One of the things that we come across when we read the Old Testament is an understanding (3:13) of God that really permeates most of the Old Testament understanding.(3:19) There are a few people of faith who recognize something different at work here and there, (3:24) and really if you want to dig into this type of thinking, it's really, the book of Job (3:29) is saturated in this thought, and it's what's called Retribution Theology. (3:35) And what Retribution Theology teaches is that if you do good things, good things happen to (3:40) you. (3:40) If you do bad things, bad things happen to you.(3:43) And when it comes to faith in God, right, if you have faith in God and you do everything (3:47) that God tells you to do and you make no mistakes, then God will bless you with wealth, a healthy (3:54) family, land, all of the things that you would need to survive, right? (3:58) Power and influence, God promises people, or seems to promise people that if they do (4:02) good things. (4:03) But if you do bad things, then there are consequences, and oftentimes in the Old Testament we read (4:08) moments where God punishes people who commit sin against Him, right? (4:12) We see that in the Garden of Eden, when Adam and Eve commit sin, they are kicked out of (4:17) the garden. (4:18) We see Cain, when he sins, by killing his brother Abel, he's placed with this curse, right, (4:23) and set out to roam the earth.(4:25) The flood, right, humanity became wicked and violent, and God sends a flood to destroy (4:33) the earth. (4:34) Psalm and Gomorrah, right, they become rebellious against God, they become violent and oppress (4:39) people in their sinfulness, and God destroys them. (4:45) So again, it gave rise to this idea that if you do good things, good things happen.(4:50) If you do bad things, bad things happen. (4:51) And by no indication, as we talk about this, understand whenever we commit sin in our lives, (4:59) and whenever we willfully go against the known law of God, we step outside what God's prescribed (5:04) for us, we open ourselves up to consequences, and sometimes those will be divine consequences, (5:10) and sometimes those will just be consequences because we live in a world that's going to (5:15) react to our sinfulness. (5:18) If you go out and you rob a bank, you will get caught eventually because of the technology (5:23) that we have nowadays.(5:24) You will get caught, and what's going to happen to you is you're going to get arrested and (5:29) go to jail. (5:29) Those are the consequences of that sinful action. (5:36) But in the Old Testament, it gave rise to this idea that if you do good things, good (5:39) things happen.(5:39) If you do bad things, bad things happen. (5:41) And again, if you study the book of Job, the book of Job really dismantles that kind of (5:46) belief structure. (5:50) As a matter of fact, in the opening of the book of Job, God is talking about how Job (5:54) is a righteous man, and that nowhere is disputed in the book of Job.(6:01) That remains an ongoing thought, an ongoing characteristic that we know about Job, that (6:07) he is a godly man who is enduring the loss of his family, the loss of his wealth, the (6:14) loss of his health, right? (6:15) All these bad things happen to him because he is a righteous person. (6:19) He is caught up in some cosmic battle that he has no knowledge of, but it deeply impacts (6:25) his life. (6:26) But despite all that, Job remains faithful to God, even though he's questioning God at (6:31) times because, again, he himself is dealing with this retribution theology, and this life (6:37) experience is going to open Job's eyes to see that that's not always the case.(6:42) Again, certainly, if we go out and commit acts of sin, we shouldn't be shocked when bad (6:47) things happen to us, but it's not always a guarantee. (6:51) There are many times in this world when we see people do crooked, wicked, and evil things, (6:54) but yet they seem to elude prosecution, they seem to elude any type of consequence whatsoever. (7:01) But again, that's because we live in a broken, fallen world.(7:05) So retribution theology isn't always an accurate understanding of God, and when we read the (7:10) Old Testament, we have to be careful to not develop that understanding and to allow what (7:18) appears to be retribution theology impact our understanding of God. (7:22) It's the same God in the Old Testament that is the same as the God in the New Testament. (7:27) They're the same, but the circumstances around humanity are different.(7:35) In the Old Testament, there is no Jesus. (7:37) They have the tabernacle, they have the sacrificial system, but those were only a placeholder. (7:42) to what was going to happen when Jesus came.(7:45) And when Jesus died on the cross, that's why he did away with the sacrificial system, because (7:48) he was a sacrifice once and for all. (7:51) But even while Jesus was ministering, this was an ongoing issue among his people, and (7:56) there's an interesting story in the Gospel of Luke in chapter 13, I'm going to share it with you. (8:02) And so Luke 13, this is what happens.(8:05) It says, some who were present on that occasion told Jesus about the Galileans whom Pilate (8:10) had killed while they were offering sacrifices. (8:13) And Jesus replied, do you think the suffering of these Galileans proves that they were more (8:18) sinful than all the other Galileans? (8:20) No, I tell you, but unless you change your hearts and lives, you will die just as they did. (8:26) What about those 18 people who were killed when the Tower of Asylum fell on them? (8:31) You think they were more guilty of wrongdoing than everyone else who lives in Jerusalem? (8:36) No.(8:36) I tell you, but unless you change your hearts and lives, you will die just as they did. (8:42) So Jesus is talking about these two significant events, and we don't fully know what happened (8:47) in these events. (8:48) We know Pilate cracked down on these Galileans for whatever reason.(8:53) They did something that caught his attention as a Roman official governing an area, so (8:58) he felt the need to step in, and even they perhaps went in to offer sacrifices, thinking (9:04) that would protect them, and it did not. (9:09) In verse 3 of Luke 13, Jesus says, no, I tell you, unless you change your hearts and lives, (9:13) you will die just as they did. (9:15) Now again, this is not Jesus applauding the idea of retribution theology, you do bad things, (9:20) bad things happen.(9:21) What he's pointing out is perhaps they died in their sin because they were unrepentant. (9:26) They were unrepentant in sin. (9:28) It wasn't the cause of their death that was sinful, it was the fact that they were living (9:32) in lives of sin, potentially.(9:38) And so the warning Jesus is giving here is to walk in step with God no matter the circumstances (9:43) around you. (9:45) And that's why he adds this other example of this tower that falls in Siloam. (9:50) It sounds just like a construction accident of some sort.(9:54) No one did it on purpose. (9:56) Something just went wrong and this tower fell down and it killed people. (10:00) And the people that were killed in that incident, just because they died in that incident does (10:04) not prove that they had done something simple worthy of dying in that incident.(10:12) But what Jesus is telling the disciples and those who asked this question presented it (10:16) is that we don't know when our moment will come. (10:21) We don't know what will cause our death. (10:25) And just because somebody dies or howled at does not necessarily mean that they had sinned (10:30) against God.(10:30) But because dying in sin has consequences that we should always make sure our hearts are (10:36) prepared and ready to stand before God's throne. (10:39) This is why we can't just say the prayer, Jesus forgive me of my sins and continue living (10:44) the way we've always lived. (10:46) That's actually mocking what the blood of Jesus has done for us.(10:51) That's denying the power through the Holy Spirit that God's made available to us. (10:58) Now we are to live and walk in step with God no matter the circumstances that are happening (11:02) around us. (11:03) So again, as we study the story of Psalm Gamora and our passage this week for the sermon when (11:10) we talked about Genesis 18 and Moses, or not Moses, Abraham is pleading on behalf of the (11:15) people.(11:17) Yes, they have sinned against God and judgment is about to fall. (11:23) And again, it may appear that there's retribution theology at work here, but that's not really (11:27) what's happening here. (11:29) There's something deeper that's going on and we're going to dig into that here in just (11:35) a minute.(11:35) But one of the other things I brought up in the sermon was that the sin that was happening (11:42) in Psalm Gamora was one that was inflicting pain upon people that lived there. (11:48) Whether they were sinful or not sinful, they were being impacted by the sin of the people. (11:54) It was a situation where the sin was so unbearable that nobody could withstand it.(12:00) And that's what happens when we live in sin, when we allow sin to reign unchecked in our (12:06) lives and in our communities, in our countries, it brings about pain, suffering, violence (12:14) and wickedness. (12:16) And those are all the opposites of God's design. (12:19) When God designed humanity, when God designed creation, He created everything to be good.(12:26) He took the chaos that was in existence before and He brought order out of it and He made (12:33) it very good, including us. (12:37) So, we weren't designed to experience pain, fear, death and destruction. (12:45) Sin brought that on.(12:49) And that's the real issue in the story of Psalm Gamora. (12:51) And again, if you go into Genesis and you read the whole account of what happens in (12:56) Psalm Gamora, which I believe is Genesis 19, I'm not sure when it happens, yeah, it's (13:05) Genesis 19. (13:09) Again, we read what happens.(13:11) So, God's three visitors leave Abraham, they go to the cities of Psalm Gamora to explore (13:17) it and while they're there, they go to Lot's house to stay there and as they're trying (13:22) to stay at Lot's house, the whole village people, all the men come out and they are (13:27) demanding Lot to release these three visitors to them so they can have sexual relations (13:32) with them. (13:33) These three men do not want to have sexual relations with the other men in the village. (13:42) They're trying to force themselves upon these three men and they're trying to force Lot (13:46) to participate in their sinful activity.(13:53) Again, oftentimes you read this story about Psalm Gamora and just pinpoint the whole reason (13:57) God wipes them out is because of the homosexuality that's happening there. (14:02) And don't get me wrong, I believe that the Bible teaches us that homosexuality is wrong. (14:07) It's a lifestyle that goes against God's design for us.(14:10) But that's not why God destroys Psalm Gamora. (14:13) It's part of it. (14:14) It's the sin that the people are trying to commit, right? (14:17) It's not just a willful committing of it.(14:21) It's a violent, raping, pillaging, self-satisfying, self-seeking, self-gratifying version of it. (14:29) Well, they are trying to physically force these three visitors into this sexual encounter (14:34) with them. (14:40) But even the action itself is not why God destroys Psalm Gamora.(14:45) It's part of it. (14:46) It's evidence of the symptoms of why God destroys it, but it's not the actual reason. (14:52) It's part of it.(14:53) Don't get me wrong. (14:53) I'm not saying that's not why. (14:55) That was all good.(14:57) Psalm Gamora are destroyed because their hearts are so hard. (15:04) They are so self-seeking. (15:06) Their sinfulness is so destructive that no one stops to pause, other than Lot, right? (15:12) Trying to protect the three men, right? (15:13) And by trying to protect the three men, the only thing Lot can come up with is, I'm going (15:16) to offer my two virgin daughters, so hopefully that will pacify the crowd and get them to (15:21) go away.(15:22) But the crowd's not interested in that. (15:23) The crowd's not interested in being pacified. (15:26) Their intention as a mob is to get what they want and to get what they are after, and they (15:32) don't care about the consequences for themselves or the harm they're going to inflict upon (15:37) these people involved.(15:40) The hardness of their heart is the real issue. (15:44) We don't know why God sends these three visitors in, other than God makes mention to Abraham (15:48) and he's come down to investigate it for himself. (15:52) God's not saying that because he doesn't know what's happening.(15:54) He's saying that to let Abraham know, I hear the cries, I see what's happening there, and (15:59) I'm going to step in. (16:02) And so these three visitors, these three, let's believe the angels of God, are present (16:06) to kind of try to assess the situation before they can even make any attempt to give a word (16:18) of warning or call these people to repentance. (16:21) Their symphonist grabs a hold of them and makes it an impossible, unbearable situation.(16:27) The situation is unbearable, impossible, because their hearts were that wicked and corrupted. (16:33) And that was the real issue. (16:37) And oftentimes, you don't hear me talk about it, this is what it's meant when Jesus talks (16:40) about the unpardonable sin.(16:44) The unpardonable sin is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. (16:49) And there's so many ways where we've taken that and tried to make it mean different things. (16:54) And we talk about how being disruptive in a church service is about, you know, hindering (16:59) the Holy Spirit.(17:01) And in some ways, I guess that is blaspheming the Spirit. (17:03) We don't want to, God wants us to have orderly services, right, whether, you know, when I (17:09) mean orderly, we can have a planned service, or we can have a planned service that God (17:13) interrupts and changes the course of, or we can kind of just trust the Spirit as we go (17:16) into the service and see where it leads. (17:17) Everybody does services differently.(17:19) But even when you do just follow the Spirit, there's going to be an order to it. (17:23) There's going to be a plan and a process that you go through. (17:28) And so when we are intentionally causing disruptions and disrupting the flow of what the Holy Spirit's (17:33) trying to do, then yes, in some ways, that's blaspheming the Spirit, but that's not what's (17:37) really at work here.(17:39) Blaspheming the Spirit is having an attitude and a heart so hard that you can't hear the (17:43) voice of God calling to you. (17:46) And that's what makes that sin unpardonable. (17:49) We cannot be saved without hearing the Master's call.(17:52) And the Master's call comes to us through the whispers of the Holy Spirit, acting in (17:57) God's pervenient grace, calling to us when we're lost and we don't even know we're lost. (18:06) But just like any person in our lives, if you ignore people, you pretend that you don't (18:12) hear their voice when they speak to you, you're not going to hear them. (18:15) You're not going to pay attention to them.(18:16) And that's really what's at work when we're blaspheming the Holy Spirit. (18:20) The Holy Spirit's calling to us, attempting to draw us to God and to draw us to God's (18:25) ways because God is good and God's ways are good and therefore are good. (18:29) But when we refuse to hear God's voice, when our ears become so deaf that we no longer (18:35) hear God calling, we become unpardonable in that moment.(18:40) It's not God's doing. (18:42) It's our doing when that happens. (18:44) We create that.(18:47) We cause that problem. (18:48) And that's what happened with Sodom and Gomorrah. (18:51) They were so consumed by sin in their lives, they were so consumed with gratifying themselves (18:58) that they could not even give God's messengers an attempt, attempt to warn them, attempt (19:05) to call them to repentance.(19:07) Instead, they demanded what they wanted when they wanted it and how they wanted it with (19:11) no regard for anybody else and no regard to hear the voice of God. (19:17) And it's in that moment, the most gracious and loving thing that God can do, the most (19:23) just thing God can do, the most merciful thing God can do, is put a stop to it. (19:30) And that's why Sodom and Gomorrah are destroyed.(19:36) That's pretty heavy. (19:38) And that's why when Jesus returns, again we reference the passage in Matthew 24 when Jesus (19:43) is talking about His return and how intense the suffering will be. (19:47) And Jesus words it in a similar way where it's going to be unbearable.(19:51) If Jesus doesn't come back, there is no chance for anybody to be able to endure and bear (19:56) through it. (19:57) So Jesus has to return. (19:58) Why? (19:59) Because it's the most gracious and loving, merciful thing God can do in that moment.(20:06) But the reason why, again as I talked about this in the sermon, we look at our world right (20:11) now and we see news of school shootings and mass shootings. (20:16) We see news of genocides and we see all the hatred and the division that's happening. (20:23) We see all these atrocities that are being committed and we ask ourselves, God what are (20:27) you waiting for? (20:28) Why are you lingering? (20:31) And God's lingering because there's hope.(20:34) God's lingering because of the righteous. (20:38) He's giving us, and they may not be righteous yet in the sense that they have faith in God, (20:44) faith in Jesus, but their hearts are not closed off yet. (20:48) There's still opportunity to share.(20:50) There's opportunity to witness to them, to point them to Jesus. (20:55) And that's why you and I are here. (20:56) That is our mission.(20:58) To share the good news of Jesus Christ. (21:01) That despite the ways of the culture that are filled with wickedness and violence, there (21:06) is an alternative to the way we can live here. (21:09) And it's not based on the circumstances of what's going on around us here, it's based (21:13) on our faith in Jesus and the work of his Holy Spirit in our hearts.(21:17) In the midst of brokenness and tragedy, we can find hope. (21:22) We can find wholeness. (21:23) We can find peace.(21:25) It doesn't mean all of our problems go away. (21:27) It doesn't mean necessarily bad things magically become good. (21:30) It just means that the bad things don't define us.(21:34) The grace of God in our hearts does that. (21:40) And really, one of the things that is at play in the conversation between Abraham and God, (21:47) and I talk about the characteristics of God that are revealed in Scripture, and really (21:52) even revealed in the story between God and Abraham discussing, you know, will God destroy (21:59) these two cities even with the righteous still present? (22:06) What's at play here is we have an all-knowing God, a God that sees all, knows all, but doesn't (22:12) miss anything, and a people who are living with their own free will. (22:19) And that's a tricky thing as you read through Scripture, and it plays out in several places.(22:27) We see the sovereignty of God at work, but the free will of man still in play. (22:36) God had a plan for humanity when he created it. (22:40) Adam and Eve in their free will choose to go their own direction.(22:47) When we read the story of Sodom and Gomorrah, God knows the wickedness and violence of that city, (22:57) but yet he still entertains this conversation with Abraham. (23:01) We read in Exodus, right, where God sends Moses to help set his people free. (23:08) And there's a lot of interesting dialogue that happens between Moses and Pharaoh, but (23:12) also in between those dialogues where Moses is taking God's message to Pharaoh, (23:17) Moses and God have conversations.(23:20) And God says things like, well, I'm going to change this, but understand Pharaoh is (23:26) going to harden his heart. (23:29) Pharaoh's heart is going to be hardened. (23:32) And then you read in the story that God changes the circumstances of the plague, he puts an (23:36) end to it, and then it says in the text, God hardens Pharaoh's heart.(23:42) Well, how does that work, right? (23:44) We have a sovereign God at play, but it doesn't seem like the free will of man is at play (23:48) in the story, but I assure you it is. (23:52) Again, you have to read that through the understanding that a lot of the Old Testament theologians (23:57) and the writers had this somewhat of an idea of a retribution theology. (24:03) And so Moses, in writing the Exodus account, God told him Pharaoh's heart would be hardened.(24:09) And so from Moses' perspective, in a lot of ways it probably did look like God hardened (24:13) Pharaoh's heart. (24:13) In all honesty, in some ways, Pharaoh sees what God did, and rather than humble himself (24:21) and repent before God, he takes the arrogant approach and continues to stand off against (24:27) God. (24:28) So Pharaoh acts in his own free will, but in some ways, because God acted and brought (24:35) the plague, in some ways, yes, God did harden Pharaoh's heart.(24:39) But understand, in that story, it's not really God being a puppet master and flipping the (24:43) switch on Pharaoh's heart, right? (24:45) God's not saying, okay, you're going to love me in this moment and flip it back the other (24:48) way and thus bringing more punishment on Pharaoh. (24:51) That's not what's at work here. (24:53) No, Pharaoh is up against the all-knowing sovereign God and still acting in his free (24:58) will, still choosing to harden his own heart against God.(25:03) We see it at work in the story of Judas in the Gospels. (25:07) Jesus says to him, it'd be better for the person who betrays the Son of Man to have (25:12) a millstone tied around his neck and be drowned, or something to that effect. (25:16) And the way Jesus words it, it sounds like God has allowed Judas to take on this role (25:22) with no choice of his own, and yet it leads to Judas' destruction.(25:32) But that's not what happens here, and that's not why Jesus says that. (25:35) Jesus says that because he knows Judas. (25:39) And when he says that, he knows Judas is there, he knows what Judas is about to do.(25:45) And he says that because he knows, Judas, if you get up from this table and you go out (25:49) to do what you're going to do, this is the moment of no return for you. (25:52) Not because I can't help you, but because you can't hear me calling to help you. (26:01) Judas acted in his own free will.(26:04) He chose to walk that path. (26:07) God, knowing Judas was going to make that choice, did nothing to impact Judas' free will, (26:13) just as it did nothing to impact Pharaoh's free will. (26:17) And just as God knew, as he's talking and negotiating with Abraham, (26:21) that the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah was going to happen, (26:24) he's not negotiating with Abraham to have some game that's going on with Abraham.(26:30) No, he recognized the faith at work in Abraham's heart. (26:34) And Abraham's stepping in the gap, pleading for these people, (26:38) for God to save them on account of just ten righteous people living in the entire two communities. (26:53) It seems paradoxical to us that a sovereign God that knows all (26:58) would allow us to make choices that goes against his will.(27:03) But what we miss is that's why love exists. (27:09) Love is not based on feeling. (27:13) It's not based on action.(27:14) Love is based on choice. (27:16) It's a choice we make. (27:19) I choose to love my wife.(27:21) I choose to love my kids. (27:24) Yes, Scripture says I have to do those things, (27:26) but I have a choice whether or not I'm going to do it. (27:30) How many broken families do we see where the mom or the dad choose to no longer love their spouse (27:36) or to love their kids and walk away from it all? (27:41) That's a choice they make.(27:48) We can choose to love or to not love. (27:56) And our choices we make are demonstrated through our actions. (28:00) What we believe and what we think comes out through what we do.(28:07) And that's where the Holy Spirit helps us as believers. (28:09) When we put our faith in Jesus, he gives us the Holy Spirit to help align our love for God (28:15) with what we do and what we say and how we act. (28:18) But how does he do that? (28:19) He does that by transforming our hearts and renewing our minds.(28:29) Transforming the heart happens in an instant. (28:31) Renewing the mind, undoing patterns of living and brokenness due to our own sin (28:36) and a reaction to the sin around us. (28:38) It takes a while to undo those things, to unsee them.(28:44) You and I are still free to choose in any and every situation. (28:56) And we're able to do it and make the right choice to walk in step with God (29:01) because he's gifted us the Holy Spirit to help us see the choices that are available to us. (29:13) And it's not always going to look the same.(29:14) It's not always going to sound the same. (29:16) But there's some similarities. (29:19) And it'll be marked by the love of God in the end.(29:26) Well, that's all I have for this episode of Leftovers. (29:28) If you have any questions based on this message, based on this episode, (29:33) or based on Christianity in general, please, again, post them in the comments. (29:36) Use the Message Pastor Jason button if you're listening to this through the podcast.(29:40) And I'll do my best to answer those for you either in private or through the video. (29:44) If you prefer for me to answer in private, just let me know that. (29:46) I'll make sure that that's how I carry it out.(29:52) But until next time, I will grace and peace to you in the name of Jesus.